Wednesday, May 23, 2007

Denying The Lord Jesus

To incorrectly represent someone is to deny their character. I have been in "dialogue" with a man from the LDS (Mormons). In our discourse, I pinned down the one main topic that is fairly common to all religions that claim to be of God and are not: that is the person of Jesus, His Deity, His place in the Triune Godhead from eternity past, His atonement for our sins on the cross.

This man is rather annoyed that I will not take the time to do a deep study of his faith. He cannot understand that I do not need to. What is important, is that I know Jesus. I have a relationship with God through the Lord Jesus and to reject every thing that is not Christ. Just like the people who are trained to spot counterfeit bills. They only handle good money. When something comes along that is not real, they know it.

They have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. That power is Jesus. He is the theme and focus of the Bible. The focus of God's Word is entirely centered on Jesus. If you miss Jesus, you miss life.

The Assemblies of God have a good deal of material demonstrating this point. Please see the following links:

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Statement_of_Fundamental_Truths/sft_full.cfm

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Statement_of_Fundamental_Truths/sft_full.cfm#3

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/index.cfm

Like a road map, the Bible should leave the earnest reader at the feet of Jesus and in awe of His glory with the Father. If you read the Bible and do not end up in Christ, you missed it all and need to start over. Just like a map from city to city; you need to go back to the starting point and follow the trail again until you get to the right destination.



The LDS and the Jehovah's Witness's would have you believe that they have Jesus centered in their faith, but they do not. They offer you a misrepresentation of Jesus. Just like you were trying to go from Houston to New York and wound up in San Fransisco. They would be there to argue that you were looking at the Brooklyn Bridge and not the Golden Gate. The Christ they present in their faith is not the one I know from my Bible. My Jesus is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. Jesus is one with the Father.



John 10:30I and my Father are one.



He is not inferior or the "brother of Satan". (See links from Watchtower site and LDS below)



The following link is from the Watchtower website, scroll to the bottom and you can see a table yielding their beliefs. Nested among many truths that they do share of God's Word are many errors, here is 1 major error "Christ is God's Son and inferior to Him". They have taken a great deal of scripture out of context to arrive at this conclusion based on the wisdom of man. See the link below.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm?article=article_04.htm



You can also find links for LDS beliefs, but I found a more concise page here

http://mormoninfo.org/index.php?id=1


To sum it all up: know Christ

2 Peter 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

I have a question. For all those of the Jewish, Islamic, LDS, and other faiths that deny the scriptures and the deity of Christ. Did the founder who wrote your doctrines demonstrate any power besides the ability to beguile many with false doctrine and lead you captive into rituals and things of mans wisdom?

The disciples of Jesus preached the Word with power, signs and wonders confirming their word.
I do not see that power as common as it should be in my Church. But we have the expection of it to happen. Where is your hope?

3 comments:

Anonymous said...

CONTINUATION:

Donny's response:

This will take some time to respond, let me hit the critical issues first as you list in your letter. Please read to about the halfway point in your letter; As I will wait to continue based on your response.
Donny

I have been in discourse with some brothers as to whether verse 10 in II John meant to not allow in or to receive to spend in full fellowship.
This has been resolved, and the next set of visiting ladies (folks) were admitted in as my wife was present ans we spoke for some time. The "negative feelings" are what I would call a Godly apprehension for scriptural error.

Your "respectful" letter is rather loaded with in-flamatory adjectives, but I am happy to continue to answer.

Attacking any character flaws on my part to re-direct the error of your doctrine. I'll ignore them from this point and stick to answering your queries of substance.

Before I continue with this, I would like permission to post parts of this letter and my responses to my blog. I cannot surrender the time it will take to list these details unless I can make the work public.

Donny

MY RESPONSE:

Dear Mr. Phillips:

I have already posted it on your blog.

Although, I would prefer not to have my email address made public.

I am certain it would only lead to a lot more hate and prejudice directed into my inbox from people who would never listen to what I have to say.

For some reason, Calvary Chapel seems to have a reputation for hating Mormons. Sad, but true.

Having it posted anonymously on your blog should be sufficient.

So I am trusting you to honor my wishes and not make my email address public.

You site my inflammatory remarks, but please remember, yours were the first disrespectful comments... that seem to be persisting.

I am disappointed any Christian would harbor such prejudice and hate... and yes, as a fellow Christian I am highlighting it for your sake.

Please find the respect to leave derogatory remarks out of your response.

I will do the same.

Sincerely,

Jerry

AND DONNY'S RESPONSE:

The real mechanics behind this is that your comment comes to me first so I can review the content and in your case, make sure to remove any tails of id, email, or other items that you may not wish to be made public. This will be done. When I release your comment, it will go into the comment section as you wrote it (un-edited).

I will only blog what I grab from your unedited comment and add scriptures from the Bible in response to your questions.

I'll release the comment now as you already count it as posted and I will add the responses I have sent you already along with the other answers into a new blog within the next week or so.

Donny

Every great thing that God/Jesus has done has not been summed up in the Bible. But note that all future revelation of God/Jesus will be in agreement with what was written.

AND MY RESPONSE:

Dear Donny:

You say that any further revelation will be in agreement with what God has written... ok, tell me how Mormon doctrines have somehow not been in agreement with what God has already revealed and is written in the Bible...

You assume Mormon doctrines are not in agreement, but I contend you don't know Mormon doctrines well enough to make that claim.

It has always been the case... again and again... that people build up these negative pre-conceived ideas about the Church and in reality, it all comes down to a lack of understanding... instead of trying to understand the doctrine, it is just easier to condemn it...

A lot of innocent women were murdered during the Salem witch trials... it is a shame ugly prejudice and fear of the unknown still infect human beings.

Sincerely,

Jerry

AND DONNY'S RESPONSE:

http://www.mormoninfo.org/index.php?id=1
I think these folk have done a good Job researching your beliefs and correcting the doctrine issue, give this page a look

Donny

AND MY RESPONSE:

Dear Donny:

I am not interested in their hate filled, prejudicial propaganda...

I have been to their page before and tried to engage them in rationale, respectful dialog...

They are incapable of it...

They are only interested in condemning Mormonism with no real understanding of it...

and blind intolerance is the ugliest form of prejudice...

YOU are the one who made the prejudicial comments in your video ! !

Is it your choice to align yourself with an even greater degree of prejudice than you have already exhibited...?

Numerous times through the scriptures we are taught about the importance of humility...

where is yours Donny...?

Is there no humble part of you capable of accepting the possibility that even some of what I wrote may have some validity...?

As a disciple of Christ, how are you going to reach out to this Christian brother when you are given the chance to witness to me...?

Your answer is to push me off to the kind of people who 160 years ago where murdering Mormons because of this same hate filled prejudice...?

Come on, Donny... think for yourself... read what I wrote and give me YOUR response...

I didn't take the time to write this for their benefit.

I was hoping to provide explanations and a different point of view to who I thought was a humble man interested in searching for truth.

Isn't that you...?

I still hold out hope YOU will respond... and have the humility to accept the possibility there may be something valid in what I wrote.

Jerry


AND DONNY'S RESPONSE:

Jerry

The web site I sent on mormon info was my quick answer to your numerous inquiries
I will be posting a new blog and video soon to cover the various issues of the Church of LDS and the Jehovah's Witness (JW). It is quite simple to show that you are cults. I do not single out any specific religion save those that make a spectacle of denying the One True God or Christ His Son. Yes, you deny Him when you present Him in error. Just as the Jews deny that Jesus was the Son of God, they, like Islam will go as far to award Him the status of prophet, much like they respected Elisha etc, but they deny His deity. Deny Him before men and He denies you before His Heavenly Father .

The JW's teach that Jesus is inferior to God in their doctrine among other errors. They actually share this in a tenet of faith on their web site.
The LDS teach that Jesus and satan were brothers amongst other errors. Your lds.org site has a lot of references from the book of mormon.

As you know, in this country, if you misrepresent someone, you can be taken to court.

The Bible (God's Word) is a road map to Jesus. He is the center and the only begotten of God the Father. He was with the Father in the beginning, and was one with the Father, even while He walked this earth. Many faiths loose their way in the Word of God and never see that Jesus is the Center of it all. In your case and in the case of the JW's. You appear to put Christ at the center, but it is not the Jesus my Bible describes.

I wish I had the time to point out all the errors of your faith, it intrigues me how you rationalize things such as evangelizing the dead and the dispensation of the dark skinned races as being made servants due to a decision to remain neutral in some bogus argument your faith teaches.

Haply enough, showing the Deity of Jesus as the Son of the Almighty God and the points of your faith that attack this truth (Jehovah's Witnesses also) is all one really needs to be shown to prove that your faith (LDS), Watchtower, and Islam for that matter are all doctrines of the devil.

Please be patient as it will probably take a week or so to assimilate all the material and produce the video/blog , I will mail you a link when it is done.

I pray and will pray that if you are honestly seeking the truth, that God will open His Word to you and you will see Jesus. If not, you a re still doing a useful work in motivating me to produce more detailed study material to qualify the scriptural errors of cults.

Donny

MY RESPONSE TO THIS IS IN THE NEXT POST

Anonymous said...

Donny:

I am so disappointed in you.

It is obvious you have not read my original email, and it is obvious you know little to nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints... and yet with hatred in your heart, you prejudicially judge...

Who are you to stand back and spew critical hate filled judgments...?

The reality is YOU have decided Mormonism is a cult because of doctrines you don't understand and apparently don't have the patience to even try to understand...

You said:
You appear to put Christ at the center, but it is not the Jesus my Bible describes.

This really comes down to each of us interpreting the Bible differently. You read the Bible and derive an image of how to define who Jesus Christ is... which is different from the image I derive from reading the Bible... and then you proceed without enough knowledge to pass judgments and arrogantly declare your interpretation is the correct one and all others are doctrines spawn of Satan.

Which of course means all other Christian viewpoints fall into the category of a distortion of the gospel the apostles taught to the Galatians.

How arrogant and how typical.

There is only on Jesus Christ... it simply comes down to how you define His identity is different from the way I define His identity.... but of course there is no tolerance for a different point of view... from you, there is only closed minded, blind, hate filled prejudice.

Well, if you had read my email you would know that I addressed this point and that it is my contention that the doctrines of the Mormon Church are in fact the very same doctrines which comprised the gospel the apostles taught the Galatians, and that al the other Christian denominations are a distortion of the original gospel taught by the apostles, and I can back it up with Biblical scripture and with historical evidence...

But you are not interested in a respectful dialog... you are interested in burning cultists at the stake...

You said:
I wish I had the time to point out all the errors of your faith, it intrigues me how you rationalize things such as evangelizing the dead and the dispensation of the dark skinned races as being made servants due to a decision to remain neutral in some bogus argument your faith teaches.

How can you possibly point out errors of my faith when you know so little about it...?

The Mormon Church doesn't rationalize anything... it is obvious you don't understand the ancient practice of baptism for the dead, and how it is addressed in the Bible, and what the doctrine really is and what it is for... AGAIN... this is an example of you arrogantly proceeding to condemn with no knowledge... exhibiting gross blind intolerance...

as for the "dispensation of the dark skinned races as being made servants due to a decision to remain neutral in some bogus argument your faith teaches." ... We don't believe any race was made "servants" due to some neutral position...

It is nothing less than pathetic when prejudice shows itself like this... all you are doing is illustrating your own ignorance on the subject...

If you are referring to the fact that black men where not allowed to hold the Priesthood until 1978... I would be happy to explain to you why that was... and how it came to be... and how even a rudimentary understanding of it would bring the unbiased, non prejudicial person to the sure conclusion that there was not then and is not now any racism in the Church.

Just as a point of fact, in the first half of the 20th century, when most other Christian denominations had separate sections for blacks in their chapels... and separate bathrooms for blacks... and separate water fountains... and many Christian denominations didn't even allow blacks to become members... black people were welcomed into the Mormon Church... with no seating assignments.... and could use the mens bathroom if they were men and the womens bathroom if they were women... with no other restrooms in the building.... and genuinely saw no racism exhibited in any manner toward them...

Black people have always been welcomed into the Church. Are they not God's children just as you are...?

I actually feel apprehensive to explain the issue over blacks and the Priesthood because I am not sure I want to cast pearls before swine... swine eat up anything you through before them... they don't care and they don't appreciate whether it was garbage or something of divine origin.

Maybe... depending on your attitude... and level of sincere humility, will I relax my position and explain.

I like the reference to a "bogus" argument my faith teaches... it's funny that that bogus argument can be found in your Bible too... but hey, you know nothing about the Mormon Church, I wouldn't expect you to know your Bible either.

Donny... I am very disappointed... I assumed you were a humble man of integrity, but apparently I was wrong...

To have integrity is to stand up for and fight for what is right and true, regardless of the personal costs.

Is the way you have prejudicially attacked other children of God that happen to be of a different faith really right...?

You started this with a mean spirited attack on Mormon doctrines when you made your video public on the internet, and have exhibited nothing but more contempt and prejudice since then...

Where's your integrity Donny...?

Where is your humility...?

Respond in a way that fosters and promotes open respectful dialog and I will be happy to explain in detail why I believe the Church you attend is built on doctrines that are not in harmony with the gospel the apostles taught the Galatians... and how the Church you align yourself with is false...

Are you able to be reasonable so a respectful dialog can take place...?

If not... well, I will at least pray for you... that one day you may repent of your arrogance and I will plead with the Lord to soften your heart... and guide you to the truth... that you may learn true doctrine... and find joy and happiness in truly serving the Lord...

Sincerely,

Jerry Tulak


DONNY'S RESPONSE TO MY LAST EMAIL IS THE BEGINNING OF THIS POST.

FOR SOME REASON, DONNY WON'T ENGAGE ME WITH ANY REAL DIALOG...

HE HASN'T EXHIBITED ANY DESIRE TO REACH OUT TO FIND BRIDGES OF COMMUNICATION...

HIS ONLY REAL RESPONSE IS TO STAND BACK AND THROW OUT ACUSATIONS LIKE THE MORMON CHURCH IS A CULT AND WE DENY CHRIST...

I THINK IT IS GENUINELY SAD THIS TYPE OF CLOSE MINDED PREJUDICE EXISTS WITHIN THE HEART OF SOMEONE WHO PROFESSES TO BE A MAN OF GOD.

IT DISPLAYS ONLY HATRED AND PREJUDICE TO ATTACK OTHER PEOPLE WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE AND WITHOUT RATIONAL REASON OR DIALOG.

DONNY, I AM SO SORRY YOU SEEM UNWILLING TO ACTUALLY ENGAGE IN CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOG, AND I AM NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR BLIND INTOLERANCE...

I WANT YOU TO KNOW I HARBOR NO ILL WILL... AND I DO FORGIVE YOU... AND WILL PRAY THAT YOU WILL HAVE THE LORDS BLESSINGS THROUGHOUT YOUR LIFE...

JERRY

Anonymous said...

Donny:

I wanted to share this with you...

Recently the Reverend Al Sharpton made some bigoted comments about Mitt Romney and the Mormon Church
which suggested we don't believe in God...

Later, he felt sorrowful that he may have offended the Church and phoned Church Headquarters.

He spoke with a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles who told him it was alright... and not to worry about it...

Rverend Sharpton felt that wasn't good enough... he realized he knew very little to nothing about the Mormon Church and decided he was in the wrong to made negative comments about a Church he knew so little about, so he decided to visit Church Headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah.

You can read about his visit on these websites:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5953579

http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=b34f19a4e80b2110VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=9ae411154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD


Donny, I want you to know the Reverend Al Sharpton has truly impressed me... This is a man who has true integrity. He realized it was wrong to prejudicially judge other religious denominations, and chose to learn more... and apologized because he realized his comments may have offended the leadership of the Church or some of its members...

The Reverend Al Sharpton is truly a man of character and integrity and I have a new found respect and admiration for him.

I respected him before, but only moderately because I didn't know anything more about him other than the spin you hear in the media...

Without any better knowledge I certainly wouldn't be making public derogatory comments about him or his faith.

But now, the Reverend Al Sharpton has proven himself to be a humble, respectful man of genuine integrity...

YOU however, are nothing but the exact polar opposite... and nothing but a chronic disappointment....

I hope your prejudice tastes good... it seems to be in your mouth a lot....

I will still pray for you... mostly because you really need all the help you can get...

Sincerely,

Jerry