Friday, January 5, 2007

Visit From The Mormons

One of the earliest posts that I submitted to the Google video site was a warning about false doctrine. This video has now had more than 550 viewings and 8 downloads. Downloads are all free by the way. I believe that one third or more may actually view the entire video. I am certain that others do not as they are likely looking for the various spoofs created on Mormon visitation practices, mocking their followers. Just because a person is in error is no reason to satirize their belief or practice, they should be prayed for and given Godly counsel. The Word of God (if you read it) has all the guidelines needed to enable you to know what is and what is not coming from God. The Church of Latter Days Saints is not of God or of our Lord Jesus Christ. Haply enough, this error is basically contained with in the confines of the United States of America where the founder Joseph Smith argues another revelation of Jesus that happened with the North American Indians. Please watch the video and feel free to post comments or other information.


Anonymous said...

Visit from the Mormons? I am sitting here and had nothing better to do then to watch your video.

You commented on John: 10:16 about Christ visiting other sheep not of that fold? What fold was he referring to? You said Christ needed to speak to the Gentiles. Which I agree with but how about the other tribes of Israel which were scattered at the Tower of Babel? What does Ezekial 37:16,19 mean? What sticks of Israel was being referd to at this time?

You also spoke about Rev: 22: 18-19 not adding to the "book" what book do you think that book is being referd too? Were you aware the same scripture is written in Deut: Chapter 4 of the old testament? So following your logic, you are saying everything after DEUT: Chapter 4 is apostasy? Or are you saying your logic is accurate? Or do you not truly understand the scripture. Well, according to your video you dont understand the scripture in Revelations because that is referring to JOHN while on the isle of patmos saying not to add to the book of REVELATIONS, which ironically enough was written long before many of the other books of the New Testamant. What is your answer?

You also spoke about the BIBLE. Yes it is a wonderful book, a beautiful book, but you said it was perfect. Where in the bible does is say that? Where in the context of history does it indicate that the bible is perfect? Furthermore, if your logic holds true and the bible truly is perfect where is the book of Japheth which is referd to in the old testament in multiple scriptures from Genesis to 1 Chronicals? A book can't be perfect unless God unveils revelations saying it is, and it has all the book which are referd to in the scriptures.

A concerned Christian

Donny Phillips said...

Someone posted a comment. I chose to post it verbatim and answer all the parts in the order listed. Much was not relevant to the video on the Mormon visit or their false teachings, but it opened a door to post how you can correct error with the Word of God. I welcome more posts on this, please answer in love and in quotes of the Bible to validate your statements.

1st Paragraph answer

I do not believe that I said Jesus was to preach to the Gentiles, but that they would hear the Word of God through His disciples. This was written in John 17:20 " 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"
Jesus spoke of Himself sent to preach to the Jews. It was the Apostle Paul who declared that he (Paul) was called to preach to the Gentile. There were no tribes of Israel prior to or at the Tower of Babel. Jacob, born of Issac (The Child of Promise) came years after that. As for your reference to Ezekiel 37:16-19, It is talking about restoring the Northern and Southern Kingdoms of Israel that had been split at that time; which actually had nothing to do with what I was talking about in this video. But I am happy to discuss any Bible subject.

Ok, that was the 1st paragraph: on to 2.

I believe you a refering to Deuteronomy 4:2. The Word coming from God's mouth was not to be diluted or added to. God did not stop speaking to His People then or to us now. One important note: Any word from the Lord will be in agreement with His written Word.

II Peter 1:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The book is Revelation not plural.
It is a single message from God to His Church fulfilling a promise that He would show us things to come (John 16:13)

You are in error as to your statement of its chronologic order. It was one of the last if not "the last" New Testament books written. Its position in the Bible and the discourse on the 7 Churches expose its relative age with respect to the other books. As to the reference in Revelation 22 : 18 - 19; yes it is specific to that Book. I am a bit on the lax side to not also quote Jude 3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. This covers the issue that the older writings of the NT and the book of Revelation written after it should not be added two. Sorry to not be complete.

1 to go:

Did I say perfect ? If not, I could/should have because it is. Perfect means it is complete, no information we need left out and the final authority of all things.

II Timothy 3:

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Japeth (Son of Noah) is mentioned, there is no reference with respect to a book by or of him anywhere in the Bible. Is it in the book of mormon ?

You would do better to complain about the book of the wars of the Lord not being included (Numbers 21:14) or maybe that the writings of the prophet Enoch mentioned in Jude 14.

Perhaps you are upset that the Lord told John to not write what the Seven Thunders uttered in Rev. 10:4 and / or Pauls special revelation that was unlawful for him to utter II Cor 12:4.

The omissions do not make the Word of God incomplete. It just does not satisfy the curious mind of the felsh, wanting to have more revelation than one knows what to do with.

The rhetoric of your writing does not lead me to believe that you are not really concerned or a Christian, but you can be. Jesus said that whosoever came to Him, He would in no wise cast out ( John 6:37)

Donny Phillips said...

Video : Visit from the Mormons
News Break !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This video had 125 viewings in 1 day 11 Jan 2007. This is a definite all time high. Thanks to all of you who take the time to listen. I encourage you to get into the Word of God , not just the scriputure readings I give, but read the whole chapter and His whole Word. His Word is Life !!!!

Derek Wickwire said...

Brother, I stumbled on your videos tonight and I found your "bible-study" very encouraging. Keep up the good work, I look forward to meeting you in heaven!

Donny Phillips said...

Thanks Derek, it is really great to get some encouraging feedback.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Phillips:

I just saw your google video about your reaction to the visit from the three Mormon Missionaries. I was hoping you wouldn’t mind a rebuttal to your video.

I am 46 years old and have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints since the summer of 1976 and I am an Elder in the Church.

I wanted to shed some light on the way the Sister Missionaries responded to you, and answer your issues concerning each of the scriptures you quoted, and provide a bit more foundational framework for the Savior’s visit to the America’s, and the position of the LDS Church in general.

I hope you are open to such a dialog and would be willing to exchange ideas. I assume you are as I am… a humble man of integrity who loves the Lord and therefore has a great desire to serve Him and pursue a greater understanding of His will and His gospel.

Of course I will conduct myself with the utmost respect and consideration and I hope the same courtesy will be afforded me.

I felt the need to ask for the respect and consideration I am willing to show you because of apparent negative pre-conceived ideas you exhibited as you reacted to the Missionaries. You stated you weren’t sure if “folks like this” should be invited into your home. Can you tell me what exactly you meant…? Folks like what…? Please tell me, was it something in their appearance or mannerisms that caused the apprehension or was it an overall negative feeling toward the Mormon Church, it’s doctrines or what you thought the Missionaries were going to say…? How much of the apprehension came from negative feelings you had about the Church long before the Missionaries knocked on your door…?

I think the negative pre-conceived ideas showed themselves again when the name Moroni was mispronounced, and then you didn’t care about whether or not it was pronounced correctly. Would guests you invite into your home be treated in this manner…? Should any person with a true Christian heart treat anyone in this manner...?

Forgive me, but isn’t this the kind of sentiment that could only have been spawned from a lack of respect and a harboring of the negative pre-conceived ideas I am referencing…?

Although it is difficult, I really try to find tolerance and forgiveness for prejudice, and feel genuinely saddened when it is exhibited in the name of Christ… how about you…? Do you feel the same…?

Now, on to your video…

The notion that there will be no more revelation based on Galatians 1 is your first misinterpretation of scripture. I am assuming you were thinking of Galatians when you referred to Joseph Smith’s teachings as “another gospel”… I fail to understand how Galatians somehow means there will be no more revelation.

1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

First, there is nothing about no more revelation, in fact what Paul is really saying is the gospel the apostles delivered to the Galatians came to Paul by revelation from Jesus Christ. It also teaches that the gospel of Jesus Christ should not be perverted, and that anyone man or angel who preaches a distorted or different gospel should be accursed. You mentioned Lucifer who will appear as an angel of light in an effort to deceive the very elect, well, I agree, he will do that… which is why Paul was warning the Galatians about an apparent “angel from heaven”… but this certainly doesn’t mean that God will send no more angels to carry messages to humans. In your Bible there are many accounts of angels sent by God, to deliver a divine message or to perform some other holy task. Paul was simply warning about false angels or Lucifer adorned as an angel of light.

The real question is… was the angel Moroni truly sent by God to deliver a message to God’s chosen prophet, or was Moroni a manifestation of Lucifer appearing as an angel of light…? By the power of the Holy Spirit manifesting the truth to me and over 13 million members of the L.D.S. Church… the angel Moroni was sent from heaven by God to perform a sacred and divine assignment.

I’d like you to explain how exactly do you know with such certainty that Moroni wasn’t sent by God…? And yes, I am asking for clear specifics.

If your response will be framed with some reference to “knowing them by their fruits”… you should probably adequately investigate the Mormon Church before committing that blunder. The degree of good fruits attributed to the Church far exceeds any other Christian organization in the entire world.

If you are wrong, and Moroni was sent y God, then you may want to be thinking of how to respond when you have to answer for the level of disrespect you have shown toward a angel sent by God…

Maybe you should think again about how exactly you are so sure you are right about Moroni.

The essence of Paul’s lesson was to highlight how the Galatians had so quickly been removed from the gospel taught them by the apostles… and to condemn anyone, or any angel who would distort the gospel of Jesus Christ. This was Paul returning to Galatia sometime after Christ’s death. Paul was surprised how quickly they had turned away from the gospel of Christ as taught them by the apostles, to some other distorted form of Christ’s gospel. Galatians Chapter 1 simply warns about falling victim to false teachers who would pervert the gospel of Christ.

It is the contention of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that the gospel preached within the Church is the very same gospel of Jesus Christ taught by the Lord and His apostles 2,000 years ago, and that His Church and gospel have been restored to the earth in their fullness, after a long and painful apostacy, and that all other versions of Christianity have some partial truths, but not the fullness of the gospel.

And yes, after more than 30 years of study and prayer… and by the power of the Holy Ghost, who has witnessed to me countless times, I know that statement is true.

Let me say this also… I know none of the men who founded and lead the other Christian denominations in the world are evil men, they have simply mixed their own ideas about how to worship God with the Biblical text and inadvertently formed Churches based on distortions of Christ’s gospel. I believe Galatians is referencing people who would distort the gospel intentionally.

It seems to be a repeated principle of the Lord’s people that most of the prophets sent by God are never accepted in their own land, or by their own people. As was the case with Jesus Christ. It was his own brethren in the Jewish faith that pushed the Romans to execute him, and when the masses saw this, they all questioned how anyone could have been taken in by Jesus. Soon after this the Romans captured and executed all of the apostles. It was Roman law that any public affiliation to a known criminal of Rome meant you were guilty of the same crimes. This is where the principle of guilt by association was born.

Well, the apostles did as Jesus directed and they went out to preach the gospel to all mankind. However, they didn’t get very far, and soon were all executed by the Romans.

Once the apostles were gone, and most of the people had turned their backs on the teachings of Christ… revelation did stop. The Holy Spirit was withdrawn, and the Church of Jesus Christ was taken from the face of the earth. This was the beginning of the apostacy.

Yes, there were some who still believed in Christ, but none valiant enough to do so publicly. They knew it would mean possibly suffering crucifixion as an associate of Jesus Christ, and this simply wasn’t enough to avoid the apostacy. Did they love God more than they feared men… no, they didn’t. At best, they were remnants of Christ’s followers and they were in hiding.

This wasn’t the first time God administered harsh punishments for His people turning their backs on His gospel. Once before God responded by causing heavy rain that lasted 40 days and 40 nights, flooding the earth and allowing only Noah and his family to survive. That actually seems a bit more harsh than withdrawing the Holy Spirit and lifting the Church from the earth.

At another time, after it took Moses 40 days before coming down from mount Sinai, the Israelite people turned from the teachings of Moses, who was God’s prophet, and had a riotous, adulterous, and drunken party at the base of the mountain. They had seen God’s power manifest as miracles to save them from the Egyptians again and again, and yet they still turned their backs. That entire generation wandered in the desert for 40 years, until only their posterity was left, and it was that posterity that was lead to the promised land. That was how the Lord responded to the Israelites when they turned their backs on the gospel.

After the death of Christ and his apostles, the Holy Priesthood did not exist on the earth. Revelation had stopped. The Church of Christ was not on the earth. That’s how God chose to react to the people turning their backs on the gospel that time.

There are several more, but here are a few scriptures where you can read about the apostacy of the early Christian Church.

2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2, verses 1 through 3
Amos Chapter 8, verses 11 and 12
Isaiah Chapter 60, verse 2
Acts Chapter 20, verses 29 and 30
Timothy, Chapter 4, verses 1 and 2

Heavenly Father chose to remove His holy Church from a wicked and perverse world. However, He does love us far more than our ability to comprehend, so restoring the Church and His holy Priesthood at the proper time would be essential for the salvation and exaltation of mankind. So yes, it was part of Heavenly Father’s plan to restore the Church at the appropriate time.

Long ago God called a Hebrew slave to be His prophet. Although Moses was raised in the house of the Pharoah, he was a Hebrew slave and returned to that life once he discovered it… later God called a young sheepherder named David to be His prophet. David was hated by his brothers who even sold him into slavery, but David was humble, honest and pure from the time of his boyhood, and he was a prophet of God… In other times, God called Abraham, Ezekiel and Malachi…

Later simple fishermen responded to a humble call, “come, follow me”… and became apostles of the Lord. This is the way God chooses to communicate His word to all of His children… He calls a prophet who is usually the most humble of men… and often when they are young. It then requires the faith of the individual to either believe and follow the prophet who is leading them to Christ, or not believe… which usually leads to prejudice.

With each new prophet called, a new dispensation of the gospel was begun. This is where God dispenses His gospel to the world through His chosen profit…

Well, when it was time for the apostacy to end… God again called a humble young man to be His prophet and opened a new dispensation. This prophet was a hard working farm boy who loved the Lord and only wanted to serve Him, no matter what he would have to endure. His name was Joseph, and even though it meant a lifetime of brutal persecution he remained faithful to the Lord. Joseph lived his entire life in poverty, always a victim of hate fueled prejudice which finally lead to his murder at the hands of an angry hate filled mob. Like so many prophets before him, Joseph was not accepted in his own land, but he was a prophet of God, and served the Lord with every fiber of his being up to and including his last breathe.

All Joseph had to do was deny the divinity of the Book of Mormon and he would save his own life. However, Joseph loved God far more than he feared men… and finally he was murdered.

Jesus Christ was considered a criminal by the Roman Empire, so after his death to be a Christian meant you lived under a constant threat that if you were discovered it could mean the end of your life. This condition persisted until Constantine changed the law in 325 A.D. Constantine was a Roman ruler who believed if he adopted Christianity it would make his armies invincible. He believed if his armies carried a cross before them, they would always be victorious. He made it legal to be a Christian again. The problem was there was no set of guidelines or directives to instruct them on what Christians did… They had no guidance and several divisions began to tear at the public order. In an effort to gain control, Constantine provided direction. He had many scholars in his employ gather together with the task of defining Christianity. They wrote the Nicene Creed which introduced the doctrine of the trinity (God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are really all different manifestations of the same God). Later under Constantine’s direction, the Athenasian Creed was also produced. Constantine declared these documents to be holy, and they would be the doctrines this Christian Church would accept and believe. After building the city of Constantinople in eastern Europe (which was meant to be a center of religious study), Constantine had created the framework for a church. He had man composed doctrines, he had a city of religious study, and his command that the people under his rule would believe what the Creeds dictated. This was the birth of the Roman Catholic Church.

The Creeds gave birth to a distorted view of the Godhead… and falsehoods in basic Christian doctrines… and yet mankind adopted these false doctrines much because the original Roman Catholic Church declared itself to be the only true Church on the earth and Constantine had decreed that everyone under his rule would accept this doctrine and worship in the manner the Church dictated. This restored order under the rule of Constantine. It was the law to accept the distorted doctrines found in the Creeds… and if you rebelled against the Church you were subject to Church discipline that could include extremely harsh punishments, up to and including execution.

Most Christian denominations take their understanding of the Godhead from one or both of the Creeds… not from Jesus Christ… but from the ideas of men…

Mormons do believe the Bible to be the word of God so far as it is translated correctly. The reason a condition exists is because the Bible has been translated so many times through so many languages… often from one language to another… and from that language to another… which fosters mistakes… or misinterpretations because of language barriers.

I am quoting from President Gordon B. Hinckley (President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)… at our last General Conference seen around the world live by millions of people in 116 countries, he said in reference to the Creeds,

“How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith, who, while yet a boy, spoke with God the Eternal Father and His Beloved Son, the Risen Lord. He knelt in Their presence; he heard Their voices; and he responded. Each was a distinct personality. Small wonder that he told his mother that he had learned that her church was not true. And so, one of the great overarching doctrines of this Church is our belief in God the Eternal Father. He is a being, real and individual. He is the great Governor of the universe, yet He is our Father, and we are His children. We pray to Him, and those prayers are a conversation between God and man. I am confident that He hears our prayers and answers them. I could not deny that. I have had too many experiences of answered prayers.” Close quote…

Over the centuries after Constantine, after declaring the Roman Catholic Church to be the only true Church, and since it’s birth was out of government direction, the early Church was a ruling body. They administered law and punishment. They controlled the people partially by keeping them uneducated. Slowly, the writings of the prophets were compiled into one book… the Bible. However, only the Church had any copies and they were considered holy… so only priests and monks were allowed to read them. Centuries under the iron hand of the Church passed and finally, in the 1455, the Gutenberg Bible started to see circulation amongst the people. Slowly as people began to feel more and more oppressed by the Church, and felt the Church was in error concerning the teachings of Christ, groups of people fell away and began worshipping in ways they felt were more correct. This happened again and again. However, they all sprang from the Church Constantine started for his own selfish gains.

Today, there are over 3,000 different Christian denominations in the world. All of which can trace their origins back to the early Roman Catholic Church. They are separate entities because they can not agree on the correct interpretations of the scriptures and it seems none of them have the ability to exercise enough humility to accept they may have accepted doctrines based on misinterpretations.

All of this was man’s doing… after the death of Jesus Christ and his apostles, revelations stopped, the influence of the Holy Spirit was not here, the holy Priesthood of God was not here and the Church was not here. Mankind was left to his own device to decide how to worship God and how to practice Christianity.

And mankind has certainly made a mess of it…

Heavenly Father is not the author of all this confusion… all these different doctrines disagreeing with each other are the creations of men. All of the different Christian denominations are all reformations of the original Church based on how those individuals believed things should be changed.

Please read:
Corinthians Chapter 1: 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only Christian Church that claims to a restoration of the original Church… not a reformation.

If the apostacy never occurred, and therefore Christ’s Church never left the earth, can you tell me where it is...?

Is it the Catholic Church, which saw it’s inception as the Roman Catholic Church founded by the Roman ruler Constantine…?

Or is it all the thousands of conflicting Christian denominations in the world today all together making up Christ’s Church...? or is it one specific Church...? and if so, which one...? And once you name it... I am assuming in it we will find the same organization that Christ set up in His Church when He organized it 2,000 years ago... so this Church will have prophets (Ephesians 4), and 12 apostles (Luke 6:13),... and elders (Acts 14:23), and a quorum of the 70 (Luke 10:1)... and will institute the Sacrament (1st Corinthians 11:24, 27)... and worship in Temples as well as Chapels (John 2: 14-15, 19-21)... and will have unpaid Priesthood holders (1st Corinthians 9:18)... in a Church where the members will teach each other the gospel (Ephesians 4:11-16)... and this Church will have Missionaries that go about in pairs bringing the gospel to the whole world (Luke 10:1)...... NO WAIT... that's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... which is the only Church on the face of the planet that completely fits the description.

Yes, Christ's Church had all those things 2,000 years ago... and it has them today because Christ restored everything... and started the process by calling an innocent 14 year old farm boy to be His prophet. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the Lord's true Church living and thriving today.

It is the position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and my position that the gospel preached to the Galatians by the original apostles is the very same gospel preached today by the Mormon Church, and the man made distortions injected into Christianity have given birth to the thousands of different denominations that exist today, one of which is the Church you attend.

Now back to your video…

You stated the Missionaries were in error… their doctrines are in error… their lives are in error… please explain how you know with such certainty every aspect of these Sister Missionaries lives are in error… and please be specific.

Is it because we do not agree with you…? Is it possible you may be having a subconscious issue regarding some difficulties accepting that a Mormon may know something about Christianity that you don’t….? It has been said that pride is the universal sin… do you need to repent…?

Next you commented on John 10:16 declaring that the Mormons are wrong because the other sheep where not people on the American Continent, but people throughout the world that the disciples of Christ would minister to, and you use Mark 16:15 to justify this point. Well, the problem with your logic is that Jesus didn’t have to guess about anything. He knew the end from the beginning, and just possibly would have known that the apostles (which is who specifically he was talking to in Mark 16), were not going to get very far before they were killed by the Romans, and I am certain Jesus knew they wouldn’t be able to reach around the world. This is partially why Jesus said in John 10:16, Other sheep I have that I must bring, and they will hear my voice… Jesus had to be the one to gather those sheep because he knew the apostles would never be able to… they would be killed long before they would ever have a chance… and I think it was important the primitive people on the American continent would actually see the risen Lord… that they might believe.

It is interesting, without any evidence to back up your belief, you are so sure Jesus never visited the people on the American continent right after his death and resurrection… it brings you to the arrogant point that the Missionaries were completely existing in error… they would have to be in error with every aspect of their very lives, because if there is any truth to their story… it could actually mean some of your story may be the one in error….

Even to this day, there are still primitive tribes of people living throughout Central and South America that persist in believing in an ancient legend of a Great White God who visited their ancestors thousands of years ago, taught them, blessed them and then left promising to return.

In fact, when Columbus landed on this continent in 1492, he met the great King Montezuma and the Aztecs, who upon seeing a man with white skin in gold shining armor come off the sea appearing to them… they fell to their knees in worship completely convinced Columbus was the Great White God returning to them. This is historic fact, not fiction. The legend is real… because their was a great white God who appeared to the ancient inhabitants of the America’s 2,000 years ago… his name was Jesus Christ.

In Lima, Peru there are Temples built like pyramids, and in one of the largest there is a mural painted on one of the walls of this great white God. The temple and the mural have been dated at 2,000 years old. The mural depicts a tall slender man, with white skin, fair shoulder length hair, beard and moustache, in a white robe with hands outstretched. The overall feeling when you see this image is one of peace and contentment. It is a portrait of Christ.

There is also a giant ancient carving in the mountains, which is miles long and can really only be seen from miles away that the local people call the Tree of Life. The story they tell supporting this ancient carving almost completely parallels an account in the beginning of the Book of Mormon about a prophet of God named Lehi who saw this "Tree of Life"... Tell me, how did the ancient Peruvians know of the Tree of Life centuries before the Bible ever reached the American continent...?

It is interesting too, soon after Columbus returned to Europe and reported his journey, Spanish Padres made the journey to the Americas to bring Christianity to the primitive people living on this continent. The Padres of course kept journals. The Spanish Chronicles are widely available if you look for them. They tell the story of the attempt to evangelize these primitive people living in the America’s. The padres were surprised to discover that these primitive people had a good understanding of baptism by immersion, believed in the great flood (Noah), knew of the resurrection, and had an understanding about a Savior, life after death and heaven.

They had basic Christian beliefs… tell me, from whom would they have learned Christian doctrines...?

Everything I have just talked about is factual, and part of documented history.

So how is it exactly that you are so certain Jesus never visited the Americas…?

Then you quoted John 17:20 and 21 which is Jesus praying for all who would hear the gospel through His disciples, that they would become one with Jesus and thereby one with God. This doesn’t at all mean that Jesus left the task of preaching his gospel only to his apostles. Of course, Jesus knew his gospel would be preached throughout the world, and that eventually the writings of the apostles would be in he hands of all the people of the world. Please re-read John 10:16 again… Jesus said, other sheep I have that I MUST BRING… for some reason, Jesus knew He had to be the one to gather those particular lost sheep… not his apostles. So any mention of the apostles preaching to the whole world doesn’t really apply because Jesus had reasons why He had to be the one for these particular sheep… not the apostles.

I find it somewhat ironic you then quote Revelation 20:18 and 19 implying that the notion that Jesus visited the Americas is somehow adding to the words of the book of this prophecy as John put it… and this action would result in damnation. Well, the actual scripture talks about taking away from or adding to the “words of the prophecy of this book”… John was writing the book of Revelation and the Bible had not yet been compiled. So yes, if I were to re-print the book of Revelation and create a Chapter 23 (there are only 22), and I passed it off as part of the Book of Revelation, then, yeah… I am in hot water… but that hasn’t happened here. In no way or manner has Mormon doctrine added to the writings of John in the Book of Revelation. I fail to understand how discussing how Jesus visited America somehow changes the visions given to John concerning the end of the world. We do not claim the story of Christ’s visit to the America continent is really part of the Book of Revelation… It was recorded in a separate book… The Book of Mormon… we have not changed the Book of Revelations at all…

Actually, nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Bible is and will forever be the only book of scripture on the earth. Is it that you feel the publication of the Book of Mormon is the Church somehow adding to the Book of Revelation…? Well, it isn’t adding to the Bible any more than the Creeds are. Never did Constantine or his scholars claim the Creeds were an addition to the Bible. They were documents that stood on their own merit. Although, I do believe they were uninspired works of men, but they were not intended as a part of the Bible.

It is interesting very similar warnings are found in Deuteronomy:

Chapter 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

If we apply the same logic you applied to Revelation 22, then we would have to exclude anything after Moses wrote Deuteronomy… which means we would have to exclude all the writings of the prophets up to and including Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and the entire New Testament.

Or is it possible Moses meant that adding to or taking away from the words he put in Deuteronomy would be wrong. So re-writing Deuteronomy and taking some words out and adding some at my own discretion is wrong and can mean condemnation. That actually makes a lot more sense.

John made the same warning in Revelation 22… John referred to the words of the prophecy of THIS BOOK… which was the Book of Revelation… and in no way does the Book of Mormon add any chapters to Revelations nor does it take any chapters out of Revelations, or any verses or any words.

The Book of Mormon was never intended to be part of the Bible. It stands as another witness of the divinity of Jesus Christ. Please, if you know of a scripture that says no book of scriptures will ever come from God other than the Bible… please disclose it and prove Mormonism to be false… because your prejudicial opinions and misinterpretations of scripture are simply not good enough.

What about John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Certainly John 21:25 implies there could be many other books of scripture testifying to the divinity of Jesus Christ. I know of at least one…

Next you brought up the idea that Jesus was the brother of Satan… and how we don’t teach that from the beginning of gospel instruction but somehow, deviously wait until they are trapped, baptized and in the faith before we give them the shocking stuff…

My goodness, who do you think we are…? I know for certain there is no devious nature within the Church… I have been a member for over 30 years and I can tell you from first hand experience the Mormon people are the hardest working, most humble, most ethical, most honest, most kind and loving people you will find anywhere. I know with absolute certainty there is no hiding certain facts until after they are deep in the faith so we won’t loose them… the very notion is ludicrous and absurd.

Other Christian denominations have made such a big deal out of this because the nature of Lucifer and the nature of Jesus are such polar opposites… that anyone who would infer that Lucifer is somehow related to, or has something to do more with Jesus than simply being an adversary must be denounced as crazy or insane…. Well, this isn’t on the agenda to teach because the whole notion is kind of obvious that they are related…

Yes, Jesus has always existed, and yet He refers to God as His Father in Heaven… and we are also the children of God… and yet we are created beings… So, very much in the same sense that Jesus and us have the same Father, we can then see Jesus as sort of an older brother… as if we are all of the same species and of the same family… because we all share the same Father… wouldn’t Lucifer, who was also created by God have a connection too…? If we are created, and Lucifer is also a created being then all of us share the same Father… can we not then say Lucifer is our brother…? And if Jesus is our older brother because we all came from the same Father… wouldn’t Lucifer then also be the spiritual brother of Jesus…?

Are we not all one big family…? The family of God…?

The word “created” doesn’t mean to snap into existence out of thin air. It means to reorganize something into a new thing. Our bodies were "created" from the dust of the earth, and we lived in a spiritual form before our human birth… and I am sure when Heavenly Father “created” our spiritual selves… it was a reorganization of some other state of being… I know we existed in some form before God created us…. Or because you want to think of creation as just instantly blinking into existence, do you want to say that the men who translated the Bible shouldn’t have used the word “created”…?

Do you see the need for the caution, “so far as it is translated correctly”…?

Well, I think “created” is the right word, so I know, in some form, we were also there with God before our "creation" and I know Jesus was as well. I know Jesus is my older brother and my Lord… I know we have the same Father… and since Lucifer was also created by the same Father… we are most certainly related. Of course, Lucifer chose to rebel against God... but like all of the rest of us, he has his free agency.

On the other hand, with an understanding of the true purpose of life, you can begin to see how Lucifer’s role is and was essential. You do see that, right…? I mean, your religious study has certainly brought you to a point where you have a firm grasp on the purpose for our creation that would help us to see the true purpose of our lives…. Right…?

Or has your study not gone that far yet…?

Lucifer was created by God, and chose to rebel, and as punishment, was cast out of heaven into the earth, along with one third of the heavenly host who had chosen to stand with Lucifer in rebellion against God. Before this rebellion, Lucifer dwelled in heaven with God. If you really know your Bible, you know that is true.

It is simply your close minded, tunnel vision perspective of religion and Christianity that causes you to feel that Lucifer who embodies ultimate evil and Jesus who embodies ultimate holiness could never actually have a connection other than to be complete enemies.

Open your mind… read your scriptures… drop the arrogance and adopt some humility and you may start to really learn something.

The Sister Missionary didn’t seem to answer this point because it is an absurd question. It is like saying the original apostles are all spiritual brothers because their spirits all came from God… well, of course that is true… and we don’t need to make it part of the curriculum because it is sort of a given. Everyone should understand it without it having to be taught to them. Didn't God create us and also create Lucifer...? Are we not all part of the same family of God…?

Lucifer rebelled and then took his place as the father of all lies and an enemy of all righteousness to fulfill God’s divine purposes. There must be opposition in all things or you would never know the good stuff because you would never have experienced the bad. Lucifer provides the bad stuff… so yes, with all his hate and anger and jealousy, Lucifer provides an essential element to the purpose of life.

I really think some of this comes down to semantics and the way each of us is defining certain words… such as “created”… you use it as if it was the beginning of the created objects existence… but see, I don’t believe that because before it was reorganized it did exist in some other form. You also refer to Jesus having always been with God, but you really don’t know if we were always here too in some other form, and simply saw reorganization into a spiritual form and then again into a human form… and soon to see reorganization again into a resurrected form.

Was Lucifer the brother of Jesus…? Well, Lucifer was God’s creation and thereby God was his father, and Jesus continually referred to God as His Father in Heaven. I think you could then make a good argument for the answer to the question being “yes”.

You then make mention of your Christian brothers preaching this gospel (holding up the Bible), and you go to Jude 1:3 and declare the bible is timeless and there is no new revelation needed.

I disagree… if the Bible is all we need, then mankind has certainly misused it. If the bible is all we need then why have more than 3,000 different Christian denominations been created all contending with one another claiming to have the correct interpretation of the scriptures, meaning of course all others are wrong…? If the Bible is all we need then why is there so much confusion…? Sounds like we need the Bibles author to clarify things so some of the confusion can be alleviated. Oh, wait… wouldn’t that be regarded as further revelation…?

God has been directing His children through a chosen prophet since the beginning, and the inspired writings of those prophets has been regarded as scripture. Tell me something… with more bloodshed occurring in this world than ever before in human history, and more religious confusion than ever before… with chronic problems the masses face that never existed before… don’t you think a loving Father would want to help his children with at least clarifying direction to help them navigate the pitfalls in this world at this time when more pitfalls exist than ever before…? And if God chose to do that, tell me why would He choose to do that in any manner different than He has been doing it since the beginning…?

God sends direction to His children through His chosen mouthpieces… the prophets, and once they are prompted to write it all down and do so, we have new scripture.

I think you need to find some humility and repent for the sin of arrogance and pride.

You then called the Bible perfect and suggest that there are errors in doctrine we need to be warned about.

You stated mans movements will lead people to error… well I agree, and mans movements over Christianity began with the Creeds in 325 A.D. which is probably at the core of your own religious belief… and you don’t even know it.

God withdrew His Holy Church after the death of Jesus Christ because mankind turned from the gospel. Mankind was then left to his own device to carry forward, which lead to man’s ideas infecting the gospel to a chronic degree, so much that it caused disorganization and confusion on a mass worldwide scale.

The disorganized and confused state of the Christian community today is not the way God wanted it to be…

Please read Epesians 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists, and some, pastors, and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Father loves us so much, He saw too it that truth was restored in it’s fullness… all of the elements of the gospel of Jesus Christ that had been lost through the centuries… and God did this because He knew we needed it… and to prepare mankind for the Second Coming of the Messiah.

Please tell me how has it been “established” that the other sheep Jesus mentioned in John 10:16 were the gentile races the apostles were not preaching too…? You said it has been established… by whom…? And how is it known with such certainty…?

My suggestion is answers of this importance should come from God through the Holy Spirit… and when I humbly prayed for that answer… the Holy Spirit testified to my heart of the divinity of the Book of Mormon… which teaches exactly who those other sheep were.

You plead to your fellow Christians to read their Bibles so they can identify the errors presented them by the Mormons and several other religious groups that might knock on their door… well, I challenge you to do the same thing… and I suggest that you do it cloaked in humility.

While you are being humble, how about reading Isaiah, chapter 29 where the prophet Isaiah saw the coming forth of another book of scripture in our day. Pray to Heavenly Father about that chapter, and ask Him to reveal to you what book of scripture Isaiah saw.

Hint: Isaiah saw the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

You know… on average, more than a thousand people every single day of the year convert to the Mormon Church. This doesn’t happen because they couldn’t handle it when young, humble Missionaries taught them… it happens because they truly humbled themselves before God, and since God loves all of us so much, He sends the Holy Spirit to testify to them that what they are being told by these young Missionaries is true. The Book of Mormon is the word of God, and Joseph Smith is a prophet of God on an equal par with Moses or David or Abraham. By the power of the Holy Spirit people listening to the Missionaries hear and learn what they discover to be true doctrine… and then have a burning desire to enter the waters of baptism.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints now has over 13 million members and currently is growing at a rate of about another million member every three years. That isn’t because the Missionaries are such slick talkers they just brainwash all these people into believing something that isn’t true.. The growth is happening because what the Missionaries is teaching is true… and the Holy Spirit is continually confirming that…

Last month the Church held it’s 177th Annual General Conference. There was a talk given by Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. It is a talk I know you will find interesting. General Conference is heard live, all over the world by millions of people simultaneously. Here is a link so if you want to learn something about what the Church teaches about the Bible, you can read for yourself…,5232,49-1-690-29,00.html

I testify that the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints is the true Church of Jesus Christ restored to the earth by God through the prophet Joseph Smith. I know Jesus Christ is at the head of this Church and directs it daily. I know the doctrines of the Church are as dictated by the Lord Himself. I know the Temples of the Church are Holy and within their walls you are within the influence of Heaven, having left the earth and it’s cares outside. By the power of the Holy Spirit, I know Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and in the spring of 1820, Joseph actually saw Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ in a sacred grove of trees near his home in Palmyra, New York. I know they spoke to Joseph, and called him to be a prophet, which would open a new dispensation of the gospel. I know these things are true and say them in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, Amen.